tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post1975911773570686229..comments2008-06-25T09:44:10.109-06:00Cucumbersliceshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11525653363146168135noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-69591690293772660392008-06-25T09:44:00.000-06:002008-06-25T09:44:00.000-06:00<I>Has Mark Giordano actually signed an NHL contract with the Flames?</I><BR/><BR/>Sutter has said they've basically agreed to a deal and need to wait till July to officially announce it due to some wrinkle in the CBA. Word is, it's something like a 2 year, 800k/year contract (one-way!).MetroGnomehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15679878875910837307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-7460390229980499802008-06-25T09:28:00.000-06:002008-06-25T09:28:00.000-06:00<I>so it's not so much that we ONLY got a 25th pick. The 25th pick was one of the ONLY ones we could get.</I><BR/><BR/>I've admitted Sutter probably made the best out of bad situation. The thing is, he was primary architect of the situation to begin with.MetroGnomehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15679878875910837307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-47157981304664353102008-06-25T09:26:00.000-06:002008-06-25T09:26:00.000-06:00<I>Tanguay was a checker because we had two strong LWs.</I><BR/><BR/>And nothing else, which is the real issue. The 2nd line, as it was constructed last year (Nolan, Conroy) would've sank with Huselius on it. The lower two forward lines got killed by everyone. Ipso facto, you have a "shut-down" line which has to include Tanguay. With better offensive compliments in the top 6 or better checking alternatives in the bottom 6, the Flames have 2 actual offensive lines and Tanguay doesn't spend the entire season dragging around Conroy and Nolan against the big boys.MetroGnomehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15679878875910837307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-54721625862302286452008-06-25T09:23:00.000-06:002008-06-25T09:23:00.000-06:00Like I was saying before, even though Tanguay wanted a trade, he probably still had a short-list of teams he would accept. Combined with that, Sutter probably wanted to deal Tangs to the east (he was a flames killer before he got here). That eliminated alot of the teams who held higher picks....so it's not so much that we ONLY got a 25th pick. The 25th pick was one of the ONLY ones we could get.<BR/><BR/>Cammalleri and Umberger didn't have NTC's. Cammalleri is a young, producing LW that can fit under alot of cap numbers. That left every team with a pick in the mix. <BR/>Hitch wanted Umberger and just so happened to have the 19th pick. That's just fortunate for PHI.<BR/><BR/>I agree we are in a worse spot with Cammalleri replacing BOTH Tanguay and Huselius. But I DO like that he's a 2 position player, strong in the circle, younger and cheaper. We may only have him for one year, but I think it was good all things considered.<BR/><BR/>PLUS we stole him from Vancouver's clutches. So if you look at it that way, beyond the cap numbers and loss of roster players we've also prevented X goals against us next season (Tanguay's production if he stayed in the west, and Cammalleri's production if he landed in VAN). <BR/><BR/>What do you think about a problem for problem trade - Murray (BOS) for Warrener (CGY)?<BR/><BR/>We take the bigger cap hit, but we land a 2nd line RW for one-year (Nolan-esque) and dump a oft-scratched d-man's salary.<BR/><BR/>I'll save judgement on Sutter until I see who rounds out our roster at the end of our summer.....ChunkyMoosehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08930388226176817559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-47624268523173427082008-06-25T08:38:00.000-06:002008-06-25T08:38:00.000-06:00Hard to believe Cammalleri was worth a higher pick than Tanguay.therealdealhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05825358966465275254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-86027033745184827332008-06-25T08:10:00.000-06:002008-06-25T08:10:00.000-06:00Has Mark Giordano actually signed an NHL contract with the Flames? I understand he's coming back (and presumably with a one-way contract). Love to see him push out Ericsson.cynical joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-18492424585877664892008-06-25T07:16:00.000-06:002008-06-25T07:16:00.000-06:00Yeah, I'd be interested in Brunette and if we could get him for what we payed for Nolan last year, terrific. He's not exactly Sammy Pahlson defensively, but he's a pretty consistent 50pt guy. I think though, that Andrew might get a much better offer, I think Vancouver will kick the tires as well. But a first line of Langkow,Iginla,Brunette plus a second line of Cammalleri,Lombardi,Moss might not suck at all.cynical joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-64367501740087443042008-06-25T01:45:00.000-06:002008-06-25T01:45:00.000-06:00<I>Tanguay was a checker on this club last year because the forward ranks were so thin</I><BR/><BR/>The analysis from you and Matt seem to be depending heavily on this, but I don't think it's true. Tanguay was a checker because we had two strong LWs. We've had a second line for the last couple of years because Huselius has been giving us 4M in performance for only 1.4M in actual pay.<BR/><BR/>Ignoring the actual state of the free agent market, we are stuck with trying to fill Huselius role with only 1.4M in salary. That's just not going to happen. If we kept Tanguay, I think we would be looking at a number of unsatisfying situations:<BR/><BR/>--Tanguay plays with Iginla. Our second LW is filled with an inexperienced player (like Moss) who gets eaten alive, much like the kids line last year.<BR/><BR/>--Tanguay plays on the second line. The first LW spot is filled with a player out of their depth (like Moss). Iginla's performance suffers, and Tanguay plays at the same reduced level.<BR/><BR/>--Tanguay plays on the second line. Backlund (or some other rookie) plays in the first LW spot, and we pray that he is NHL ready.<BR/><BR/>The best of these is the first one, because it leaves fewer holes defensively. But I also see it as the least likely. Would Sutter really keep a 5.375M winger on the second line, especially if it hurts both his point production and the point production of the star 7M winger? I don't think so.<BR/><BR/>I agree that Cammy < Tanguay. But I think you have to factor in salary as well, and Cammy + 1.8M >= Tanguay, depending on Cammy's performance next season. We have a better shot at playing two decent lines next season because we moved Tanguay.<BR/><BR/>All that discussion aside, what does everyone think about Andrew Brunette? He's a little old for my taste, but I think he could fill the responsible LW hole that we have (and he's also on a nice long healthy streak). Apparently, he wants to play with Colorado next season, but they aren't talking to him yet, probably because they have Smyth and Wolski as better options ahead of him and he isn't likely to want 3rd line money. I think he's in our price range, and I think he'd fit well. Thoughts?ngthagghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00015309501290366901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-4837144725558104882008-06-24T16:28:00.000-06:002008-06-24T16:28:00.000-06:00<I>like a slow death by a thousand cuts...things are starting to list, ever so gradually...</I><BR/><BR/>Plus the Flames were pretty healthy last year: Iggy-82games, Langkow-80games, Phaneuf-82games, Regher-82games, Sarich-80games, Kipper-70+games. Key injuries + tight to the cap = trouble. One safe prediction is that the NW division is going to be tight again this year. With a 5% improvement the Flames will probably win the division, a 5% slip means no playoffs.cynical joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-18577762079742025642008-06-24T15:58:00.000-06:002008-06-24T15:58:00.000-06:00<I>I think the Flames have made some bad decisions vis a vis contracts but I don't think the Tanguay deal is the worst.</I><BR/><BR/>I agree, probably not the worst. <BR/><BR/>It's just starting to feel (to me at least) like a slow death by a thousand cuts. Sutter certainly isn't stupid, so there hasn't been one catastrophically bad decision that's sunk the team in one fell swoop. <BR/><BR/>But, to extend the analogy, if the Flames are a ship it feels more and more like things are starting to list, ever so gradually...MetroGnomehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15679878875910837307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-16387784721716800392008-06-24T15:38:00.000-06:002008-06-24T15:38:00.000-06:00<I>Im more concerned with isolating the factors that made Tanguay want to be dealt</I><BR/><BR/>Okay, any ideas? Basically it comes down to a)Keenan b)role or c)move home.<BR/><BR/>Seeing as it was Alex's last contract year what were the options? I guess you could have extended him, but it sounds like that Alex wanted out last christmas, long before the Flames could have offered an extension. You could have traded him last year at the deadline, but the Flames were hanging on for a playoff spot, and Alex wasn't having a great counting numbers year, its unlikely you'd have got more then AND you'd risk missing the playoffs (probably the same reason Huselius wasn't dealt). You could try and trade him at this year's deadline hoping his numbers improve but Alex still would have his NTC and everyone would know it. I think the Flames have made some bad decisions vis a vis contracts but I don't think the Tanguay deal is the worst.cynical joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-28942945757311589432008-06-24T14:20:00.000-06:002008-06-24T14:20:00.000-06:00That really isn't here or there for me at this point. Im more concerned with isolating the factors that made Tanguay want to be dealt - and why dealing him for a package of assets not commensurate with his value seemed like the sensible (only?) move in the end.MetroGnomehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15679878875910837307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16918358.post-41053662156041200032008-06-24T13:04:00.000-06:002008-06-24T13:04:00.000-06:00MG: do you really think that if Alex <I>wanted</I> to play in Calgary he would have been traded? Alex wasn't pushed, he jumped.cynical joenoreply@blogger.com